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Post by kennn on Jan 20, 2020 9:48:25 GMT -6
 Hello, Why do I compare them.?.?.?  If you try to compare these two programming languages, you will have a very wonderful discovery. In fact, you may also be shocked by GML. Perhaps some people are interested in this topic.  |
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Post by johnno56 on Jan 20, 2020 15:23:58 GMT -6
There is very little to compare. Like trying to compare apples and oranges. The only common point is that they are fruit.
If you want to compare then I suggest that a comparison be made between Game Maker and Enigma. Both programs do basically the same thing. Programs made with either can be used with either.
Ok then... It is entirely possible to create a game, using Game Maker, without having to do any coding in GML. Game Maker has a 'built-in' simplified graphics editor. Game Maker will port to various systems. Game Maker will cost you $. Game Maker has a very good "help" system and comes with "example" programs. Game Maker is also capable of 3D (coding required). Game Maker can create a complete game in less time.
These are just a 'few' of the benefits of using Game Maker. I would imagine that RCBasic would find it very difficult to perform just these 'few' abilities of Game Maker. This is the point that I am trying to make. Comparing these two programs is not really a fair test... A fairer test would be to compare RC with either SmallBasic; SDLBasic or FreeBasic etc
That being said... I like using GM and I like using RC 'because' of their differences... If I had to choose... then it would be RC. For me, there is a greater satisfaction, knowing that the entire game was tinkered together by the code that I used. Understanding how each line works. Knowing that the game was created by me and not a collection of 'pre-coded' instructions...
I'm not sure if this helps...
J
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Post by kennn on Jan 21, 2020 1:18:53 GMT -6
There is very little to compare. Like trying to compare apples and oranges. The only common point is that they are fruit. If you want to compare then I suggest that a comparison be made between Game Maker and Enigma. Both programs do basically the same thing. Programs made with either can be used with either. Ok then... It is entirely possible to create a game, using Game Maker, without having to do any coding in GML. Game Maker has a 'built-in' simplified graphics editor. Game Maker will port to various systems. Game Maker will cost you $. Game Maker has a very good "help" system and comes with "example" programs. Game Maker is also capable of 3D (coding required). Game Maker can create a complete game in less time. These are just a 'few' of the benefits of using Game Maker. I would imagine that RCBasic would find it very difficult to perform just these 'few' abilities of Game Maker. This is the point that I am trying to make. Comparing these two programs is not really a fair test... A fairer test would be to compare RC with either SmallBasic; SDLBasic or FreeBasic etc That being said... I like using GM and I like using RC 'because' of their differences... If I had to choose... then it would be RC. For me, there is a greater satisfaction, knowing that the entire game was tinkered together by the code that I used. Understanding how each line works. Knowing that the game was created by me and not a collection of 'pre-coded' instructions... I'm not sure if this helps... J WOW!!!!!  Your comments are so helpful and your opinions are very advanced.  Thank you very much!!! |
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Post by kennn on Jan 23, 2020 7:17:09 GMT -6
Actually, I also have some opinions. Not too valuable. only honest opinions! GameMaker Studio 2 was being sold on YoYo's website and I don't own it. I only want to focus on an ancient version of Game Maker, Game Maker 4.3! Game Maker 4.3 was released about 18 years ago(Nov 2002) and you can still download it from some websites. I want to compare Game Maker Language of version 4.3 with RCBasic. I believe that this comparison will be very interesting. |
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Post by johnno56 on Jan 23, 2020 16:40:42 GMT -6
After trying to run GM8.1 on Linux, I figured that I might try GMS1 and GMS2, but none of them even installed properly... Oh, well....
GM6 tutorials run on GM4.3 without issue. The one thing I did not check was backward compatibility... Will GM8+ run on GM4.3? Food for thought. Not exactly what you were after... Comparing GM4.3 to RC... I am not sure where to start...
It appears the the main difference, between GM and RC, is that GM is 'event' driven. Similar to GDevelop and Godot. I have no idea as to how to 'duplicate' that kind of programming using RC, but I'm going to guess that, It may not be possible. Admin would probably know better.
GML itself seems to be relatively easy to read (looks a lot like basic...) and, depending on the purpose of the code, may be able to be replicated... Even so, events are also part of the deal, and have no clue as to how to code that...
The one thing that I really liked about GM is the inbuilt graphics editor... Now that would be a great addition to RC... I suppose an editor could be coded in RC but it would have to be done by someone with better skills than I... lol
I'm also going to guess that GM is also 'object oriented' which seems to be way different to Basic... I am even more in the dark when it comes to Object Oriented Programming... Crumbs, I have enough difficulty with Basic, let alone trying to understand OOP....
My caffeine levels are bottoming out and I'm probably not making much sense... lol
Is there anything specific about GM4.3 you find interesting enough to compare with RC? Not sure if I could be of much help. After all, GM is a Window$ programme, and I haven't used Windows since 2005.... But that doesn't mean we can't find out the answers... lol
Time for coffee...
J
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Post by n00b on Jan 24, 2020 0:06:56 GMT -6
It appears the the main difference, between GM and RC, is that GM is 'event' driven. Similar to GDevelop and Godot. I have no idea as to how to 'duplicate' that kind of programming using RC, but I'm going to guess that, It may not be possible. Admin would probably know better. The simple answer to this is yes it is possible. The more complicated answer is that in OOP, events are generally setup as callbacks. You can think of callbacks as functions that are automatically called when certain events are triggered (ie. mouse is clicked, key is pressed, etc.). You can setup callbacks with most languages but you will have to design your API around this method of programming. The alternative to using this style would be immediate mode programming which is my preferred style. Here is an example of the differences between the two. Event-Driven Example: Function Button1_Clicked()
'If the button is clicked then this function will be called
'You would add your code for what to do when the button is clicked here
End Function
Immediate Mode Example: If Button_Clicked( Button1 ) Then
'You would add code for what happens when the button is clicked here
End If
The difference is that with immediate mode you could just add an if statement anywhere in your code to check for the event whereas the event-driven example requires you put all your code for that button click inside the callback function. The callback function does have the benefit of being more organized and potentially more readable by other human beings. The one thing that I really liked about GM is the inbuilt graphics editor... Now that would be a great addition to RC... I suppose an editor could be coded in RC but it would have to be done by someone with better skills than I... lol You should checkout Aseprite. Its the sprite editor I use. |
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Post by johnno56 on Jan 24, 2020 6:14:03 GMT -6
Wow... It's been a long time since I first looked at Aseprite... A lot more functions added since... I would be curious to see if it would run on Linux. Steam has a Linux version but one reviewer mentioned a minor work-a-round to get it to run properly.
Do you think a 'simple' editor could be made with RC or would that be more work than its worth? Ha... Making tools with RC for RC... How cool would 'that' be?
I can see the benefits for automatic and immediate but I'm not sure if there would be any huge differences in performance... eg: Automatic would be called 'when' triggered. The immediate would be "running" all the time (continuous if...then loops). Automatics would be called, read and executed, when triggered - therefore a slight performance offset. The immediate is continuously scanning for a condition. May be slight quicker executing but too many 'if...then's may tax memory... Mind you, all this is pure guesswork... so I could be grossly incorrect... lol
Oh great! Too much thinking! I have far too much blood in my caffeine system....
Well. I'm going to dust off my old sprite editor and see if I have picked up some much need skills since the last time I worked on it... Don't hold your breath waiting... lol
J
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Post by n00b on Jan 24, 2020 9:23:45 GMT -6
There is a native linux version of Aseprite. I think it is in the software center but I actually paid $15 for it on itch.io.
As for if you could make your own graphic editor. Sure you can. If you look at what has already been done in RC a graphic editor would be simple. The thing that would be complex would be exporting to different formats. But you don't have to write all that code yourself. You could use tools that already take care of conversions to other formats. If you look at the android builder or the packaging tool I released about a month ago you can see that many parts of those use RCBasic along with tools written in other languages.
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Post by kennn on Jan 25, 2020 19:27:18 GMT -6
n00b, Thanks for your opinions. The opinions are useful and interesting. johnno56, Good! I agree with some of your comments. My analysis again,  I also have some opinions about Game Maker Language. It uses { and } which RCBasic doesn't use. Its commands look like Engish grammar and therefore it is easy to memorize those commands. Thus novices should think that Game Maker Language looks quite easy. RCBasic's commands look like English grammar as well. Novices should be comfortable with RCBasic, too. My above opinions are normal opinions. "Is there anything specific about GM4.3 you find interesting enough to compare with RC?" <--- No specific reason. Game Maker 1.4 and 2.0 don't look like complete programs and Game Maker 4.3 can still be downloaded now. Another reason is that it was released eighteen years ago. Therefore, I want to compare its Game Maker Language with RCBasic.  |
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Post by johnno56 on Jan 25, 2020 22:36:51 GMT -6
Here is a PDF document about GML (http://tecfaetu.unige.ch/etu-maltt/nestor/morandl/clef/learn_gml.pdf)
It's a 'beginners guide' and covers the basics (no pun intended) of the language. It looks like that some of the commands could be replicated by RC but some of them are built-in functions like , 'meeting_place(x,y,object)', looks like a collision detection system? If the players object intersects with an object at x,y then do something... This can be replicated in RC as a separate Function...
Check it out and see if it is helpful
I'm not sure if this manual covers GM4.3, but looking at the image on page 4, it looks like it would be for GM 6...
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Post by kennn on Feb 6, 2020 7:42:18 GMT -6
Here is a PDF document about GML (http://tecfaetu.unige.ch/etu-maltt/nestor/morandl/clef/learn_gml.pdf) Thanks a lot. First, I want to quote some old but interesting information from a webpage: ( web.archive.org/web/20030413062801if_/http://www.gamemaker.nl/facts.html ) "Development History
Game Maker was developed over the past 4 years. Here is sort of a historical account.
1999
I started working on Game Maker (originally called Animo because my first idea was to make a simple system for creating 2-d animations) in the summer of 1999. The first public release was version 1.1. It was released on November 15, 1999. This version did already have a built-in programming language but was lacking sophistication. It did not use DirectX and it did not have a separate runner nor could it create executables. So games were simply played in the main window of the program.
Since then I quickly create public versions 1.2, 1.2a, 1.3. It was not very much know or downloaded. For example in Dec 1999 Game Maker was downloaded a total of 366 times.
2000
Version 1.4 was sort of a major release. It got a bit more attention. Downloads went up: 1000 in Feb 2000, 1500 in Mar 2000, 2000 in Jun 2000, 8000 in Aug 2000 (after some special press attention).
Version 2.0 was releases around September 2000. In the whole year 2000 the program was downloaded from my website a total of about 40.000 times.
2001
Then I release version 3.0 which was the first to use DirectX for drawing. Additional version 3.1, 3.2, and 3.3 (april 2001) appeared. The popularity quickly increased. In Mar 2001 the program was downloaded about 14.000 times and in Jun 2001 it had increased to 21.000.
In Jan 2001 I decided that I had to redo Game Maker. I rewrote it completely from scratch, using all that I learned over the years. The interface was completely changed. The new version was also not compatible with the old version. The new red color of the icon symbolised that. Version 4.0 was released in July 2001. It was followed by 4.1 in Dec 2001 (which in particular added multiplayer support). Popularity increased further. In Dec 2001 there where 32.000 downloads. In the whole of 2001 the program was downloaded about 270.000 times.
2002
Version 4.2 appeared in Apr 2002. The main feature was that stability had increased a lot. Version 4.3, having many small additions and improvements, appeared in Nov 2002.
Popularity is larger than ever. Currently the program is downloaded about 2.000 times each DAY. The number of page views of the main page of the website grew from 2000 in Oct 2000 to 70.000 in Oct 2002. In the total of 2002 the program was downloaded about 750.000 times.
2003
Starting in Jan 2003 I asked for donations because the costs for developing Game Maker and maintaining the community are increasing all the time. Game Maker now has its own domain: www.gamemaker.nl. The website was completely redone.
Downloads peaked in March at close to 100.000 downloads in one month.
In April version 5.0 appeared with many new features, in particular data file resources and time lines. Also the code interpreter was extended and improved. The program got a whole facelift with nicer icons and images. A voluntary registration mechanism was included to support the development but the program can still be used for free.
How will it continue? I keep working on the program and hopefully it will get even more popular."This is the history from 1999 to Apr 2003. 100000 downloads in Mar 2003!!?? After my research, I want to try to explain why so many people "liked" Game Maker.(Not GameMaker Studio) Yes, I really want to explain well from my(a person doesn't have sufficient programming knowledge) point of view! |
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Post by johnno56 on Feb 6, 2020 14:33:50 GMT -6
When I converted to Linux, back in 2005, I didn't know of any "game maker" type applications for Linux. Game Maker 6 ran, and still runs, very well on my machine. I suppose, comparing 'Studio' with '6'... it's a bit like... You are comfortable using MSPaint and then presented with Photoshop. Time and practice (learning curve) will fix that... But '6' and 'paint' will still be used, maybe not as much, perhaps for nostalgic reasons... lol
That was a huge amount of downloads. A program to make your own games - for free none the less - no wonder it downloaded SO many times... So many people involved in making games! Cool.
Time for coffee...
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Post by kennn on Feb 7, 2020 18:52:07 GMT -6
That was a huge amount of downloads. A program to make your own games - for free none the less - no wonder it downloaded SO many times... So many people involved in making games! Cool. Yes. Don 't forget, this program was only developed by one single developer during that period. (from 1999 to Apr 2003) Okay. I also discovered two very, very fascinating PDF magazines made by a person called Morphosis here. You should download them. web.archive.org/web/20030401114933if_/http://www.gamemaker.nl/doc.htmlI can imagine that the Game Maker user base was very huge in 2003. Why? It is because Dutch translation, French translation, Japanese translation, Russian translation and Spanish translation of the Game Maker manual are also on that webpage.  It seems that these translations of the manual were made by ethusiastic users. |
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Post by johnno56 on Feb 7, 2020 21:41:26 GMT -6
I checked out the website. Interesting stuff in those mags.
Tutorials were another mater... Two of them no longer exist... The isometric tutorial and the "here" link to the two "movement" tutorials... Obviously way too old... lol But all the others were there. Some of them I have completed in the past. But a refresher is always a good idea...
Many thanks for the link. Much appreciated.
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It seems that these translations of the manual were made by ethusiastic users.