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Post by kennn on Jul 20, 2019 16:14:38 GMT -6
Hello, I read an interesting post today:   retrogamecoding.org/board/index.php?topic=823.msg6562#msg6562It seems that our members never discuss this language? BBC BASIC looks famous anyway. BBC BASIC and RCBasic are similar because both softwares are free and based on SDL 2.0!! When I read on this website, I can't believe that the language can have so many editions: Windows edition, Mac edition, Linux edition, IOS edition, Android edition and Raspberry Pi edition. The author looks hardworking.  Maybe some our members will be interested in looking into this program! www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcsdl/index.html |
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Post by johnno56 on Jul 20, 2019 22:25:32 GMT -6
Already installed some time ago. I have some old BBC listings that I have been tinkering with, but that's all I have been doing with it, just tinkering... I have never used a BBC machine, mainly because I couldn't afford one at the time, so I settled for an emulator. But now I have the SDL2 Linux version and everything runs natively...
BBC machines where quite popular in their day were used quit a lot in schools. As to why we don't discuss them now... Probably for the same reason we don't discuss Spectrum; Atari or Amstrad's... We're talking about machines that were created 30+ years ago... Unless our members actually owned / used these machines, they will probably fade into obscurity, like most other things... Occasional fits of nostalgia will see them pop up again from time to time.... Gotta love the old 8 bit machines...
Thank you for mentioning the BBC... Ah, the memories...
J
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Post by johnno56 on Jul 21, 2019 7:56:35 GMT -6
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Post by tbird on Jul 21, 2019 8:59:11 GMT -6
Joining this forum has been quite the experience, I have learnt of the existence of so many 'ancient' devices I never knew existed. BBC's obviously quite important in computer history, I just looked at the wiki page of the BBC Micro...wow they sold alot of those, the upgraded ones or BBC Elite's went for $4000 British pounds....Interesting read.
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Post by kennn on Jul 22, 2019 2:30:59 GMT -6
Already installed some time ago. I have some old BBC listings that I have been tinkering with, but that's all I have been doing with it, just tinkering... I have never used a BBC machine, mainly because I couldn't afford one at the time, so I settled for an emulator. But now I have the SDL2 Linux version and everything runs natively... Hello, I believe that the old BBC BASIC was not suitable for game development because of the serious limitions of the hardware capabilities at that time. The modern BBC BASIC can be used to write ordinary 2D games. The games looks okay. www.proggies.ukAfter you test the software, you can let us know your comments Perhaps you test results will inspire Noob to improve RCBasic considerably. |
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Post by kennn on Jul 22, 2019 2:44:53 GMT -6
Joining this forum has been quite the experience, I have learnt of the existence of so many 'ancient' devices I never knew existed. BBC's obviously quite important in computer history, I just looked at the wiki page of the BBC Micro...wow they sold alot of those, the upgraded ones or BBC Elite's went for $4000 British pounds....Interesting read. Yes, the forum is good. |
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Post by johnno56 on Jul 22, 2019 6:43:50 GMT -6
I have been working my way through the 'examples' and found them very familiar. Similar programs to the Amstrad. BBC has some interesting features. OpenGL and Assembler and the ability to modify sound. ASDR (attack, sustain, delay and release). Programming music, without the proper tools, can be quite labourious. But interesting none the less. BBC can be coded with or without line numbers. Uses Functions and Procedures (similar to SUB) but did not see any "GOTO's". Has a bunch of VDU commands that I have not figured out yet. On particular VDU can redefine the ascii character (similar to making tiles). Theory is: It's quicker to "print" a 8x8 ascii character than "plot" 64 pixels per character.... Back then CPU's were around 4mhz. Speed shortcuts were important... Brought back a lot of memories....
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Post by kennn on Jul 23, 2019 6:40:38 GMT -6
I have been working my way through the 'examples' and found them very familiar. Similar programs to the Amstrad. BBC has some interesting features. OpenGL and Assembler and the ability to modify sound. ASDR (attack, sustain, delay and release). Programming music, without the proper tools, can be quite labourious. But interesting none the less. BBC can be coded with or without line numbers. Uses Functions and Procedures (similar to SUB) but did not see any "GOTO's". Has a bunch of VDU commands that I have not figured out yet. On particular VDU can redefine the ascii character (similar to making tiles). Theory is: It's quicker to "print" a 8x8 ascii character than "plot" 64 pixels per character.... Back then CPU's were around 4mhz. Speed shortcuts were important... Brought back a lot of memories.... Hello, a good technical review!  Thank you. Noob may have read this review and maybe Noob is looking into BBC BASIC.  |
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Post by johnno56 on Jul 23, 2019 8:16:32 GMT -6
I am curious....
I can understand the interest in 'other' types of 'basic' and what they can and cannot do... I have several types of 'basics' installed... Mainly for nostalgia; some to compare / convert; others just to see if they will run on Linux. But I usually stick with a select few types of basic. In my case; RCBasic; SDLBasic and QB64. Amstrad (Locomotive Basic); Applesoft etc. I run via emulators.
My main concern is that, by adding functions from various types of basic, would eventually produce a form of RCBasic that may be completely different from what it was intended to be... For example. When I use QB64, the commands that I used in QB1.1 or QB4.5, are still available in QB64. Ok. QB64 may not have been the best choice because it has been enhanced. My point is, the changes that have been made - both big and small - QB64 still looks and behaves like it predecessors.
My other concern is that, n00b is one person with limited time to dedicate to RC, let alone his other more important priorities. I think what we need are more people with the programming skills to help him out... Until that happens, RCBasic will advance - maybe at a slow rate - but advance none the less...
Here's a challenge. If we see a function or ability in another 'basic', that we would like to see in RC, perhaps we could try to simulate that function using RC commands. For example: SDLBasic has a built in collision system using either BobHit() or SpriteHit() commands. RCBasic can simulate these using simple rectangle collision algorithms...
Perhaps we can make a list of desired features (and what they do) and see if we can come up with an alternative method of creating the same function? Could involve some serious brain strain and coffee consumption... but might be fun...
Speaking of coffee....
J
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Post by n00b on Jul 23, 2019 10:09:15 GMT -6
Hey johnno56 you have perfectly summed up my thoughts. RCBasic, SDLBasic, QBasic, or any other BASIC are just tools. Just like having a fancy pencil doesn't make you a better artist, having a fancy language doesn't make you a better programmer. |
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Post by aurel on Jul 23, 2019 10:19:22 GMT -6
Yes i agree with Johnno 100%.
QB84 is a good example of BASIC dialect which goes into something too "much extensions"
Then just look at FreeBasic ..which is supposed to be "real" replacement for quickBasic..
and what is now . it looks like C dialect with Basic-like syntax where most of members tend to use
OOP programming for nothing important.
IF YOU ASK ME what should have basic dialect which are good for games then must have some of this commands:
INT img = LoadImage()
INT sprite = CreateSprite( img)
HideSprite( sprite)
ShowSprite( sprite)
DeleteSprite( sprite )
MoveSprite(sprite, x, y)
INT col1 = CollideSprite(sprite,sprite2)
etc ...etc..
Do I have a right this time?
PS.If I ever goes into that direction with my new interpreter I would like to have some of this functions!
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Post by eyfenna on Jul 24, 2019 1:25:07 GMT -6
I tend to agree with aurel here, however to edtablish
INT collision = collide(sprite1, sprite2)
under the hood a axis aligned bounding box (AABB) test might be necessary. A sprite itself might need to be under the hood a c structure combining a picture and the four edges of the picture.
Yet this can also be done with an array of two dimensions:
DIM arr[number of sprites, 4]
The AABB test function has 8 input variables then.
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Post by kennn on Jul 24, 2019 15:18:38 GMT -6
ok, I see.
Every programming language has its own path and each path is unique and special.
The RCBasic's path looks correct and successful, yes!
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Post by kennn on Jul 25, 2019 17:35:38 GMT -6
I am curious.... I can understand the interest in 'other' types of 'basic' and what they can and cannot do... I have several types of 'basics' installed... Mainly for nostalgia; some to compare / convert; others just to see if they will run on Linux. But I usually stick with a select few types of basic. In my case; RCBasic; SDLBasic and QB64. Amstrad (Locomotive Basic); Applesoft etc. I run via emulators. ok. By the way, a lot of BASIC languages look dead. SDLBasic looks like a dead language. Many our members talked about SDLBasic here but SDLBasic's forum shows that this language is not too okay. It looks as if there is no development team. No one develops SDLBasic any more. Their forum looks dead as well. Many BASIC languages are actually dead nowadays.  Forgive my insufficient knowledge. I remember this thread. www.cerberus-x.com/community/threads/best-game-framework-for-cerberus-x.802/Did you talk about a framework? Framework looks useful for users. If there is a good RCBasic framework made by several users, all users of the commuity will be more convenient in developing games in RCBasic!  But a framework should be complex and involve a lot of work. Nobody wants to make a RCBasic framework. |
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Post by johnno56 on Jul 25, 2019 18:36:46 GMT -6
Kennn,
"a lot of BASIC languages look dead"... First. There is an element of truth in that statement... BASIC has been around since 1964... 55 years! I am surprised that it still exists. But exist it does. 'Any' language that has been around that long, will by the natural course of events, "die off' and be replaced by something more efficient....
"SDLBasic looks like a dead language"... RCBasic is based on SDLBasic - if I am not mistaken... lol I'm going to assume you mean that by the lack of members and development... Yes. We are a small community. But, just because we are small, does not mean that SDLBasic is dead.
Development. I can't argue with that one... we haven't had an update since 2013 for windows and 2007 for Linux. I believe that this is because the developer is no longer active.
"Forum looks dead as well"... I moderate that forum, although our membership is small, it's not dead. Our Admin does what he can with the time that he has to spare, but he is not a developer.
Hmm... Cerberus. As for myself, although Cerberus looks and performs well, it's not for me... It's taken me years to learn what I know, and don't know, about Basic. I cannot speak for anyone else on this forum, but I just do not have the years to spend trying to learn another computer language... The younger ones should be able to pick it quicker than I can... lol
"Framework"... I'm still trying to get my head around exactly what a framework is supposed to do... But that's just me... lol
"Nobody wants to make a RCBasic framework"... Personally, I don't think that nobody 'wants' to make one, I think it's a mater of who 'can' make one... As you said, "complex and involve a lot of work"... That could be the main reason why we don't see one...
If memory serves correctly, I think 'tbird', is working on a framework. I have seen some of the screenshots and it looks 'very' impressive. That kind of programming is WAY above my meagre skills... lol I look forward to the finished result...
I have been coding for most of this morning and my brain is protesting... I think I will grab a coffee and play a mindless episode of Doom.
J
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Maybe some our members will be interested in looking into this program!
