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Post by rosy on Sept 18, 2021 10:30:43 GMT -6
The older the system, the faster it is. This is no discovery .. BunsenLabs proposes newer ones
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Post by Tomaaz on Sept 18, 2021 12:37:36 GMT -6
Aurel, do I know Portugese? No. So, since even the website is in that language, I have no idea if other languages are supported.
Bunsenlabs is a fantastic lightweight distro, but it's not for (ex) Windows users. It keeps my old laptop going (2GB RAM), but to make it look and feel the way I want it editing text configuration files was necessary (shouldn't be a big issue for programmers, though).
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Post by rosy on Sept 18, 2021 16:01:33 GMT -6
No Linux is for ex-Windows. SparkyLinux seems to be pretty fast too.
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Post by Tomaaz on Sept 18, 2021 16:48:41 GMT -6
I used to use Windows only. Now I mainly use Linux. If there was/is no Linux that (ex) Windows users can understand and use then how did I manage to do it? Was it a miracle or something?
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Post by johnno56 on Sept 18, 2021 19:16:03 GMT -6
I'm going to "throw a cat among the pigeons"...
I have been a Linux user since 2005. Linux Mint user since 2013. Sure I have dabbled in many 'distros' but have mainly focused on the 'main' distros... In my travels I have noticed that Linux has its main strength in so many community members contributing to its development... It can also be seen as its greatest weakness... by non Linux users. There are SO many different 'flavours' of Linux out there... To a non Linux user, this must appear, both confusing and daunting... I am NOT complaining about Linux. I enjoy the variety and the freedom to change it... I wonder how many Windows users have decided not to 'convert' because of the sheer number of distros?
Are there any other reasons? The floor is open...
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Post by rosy on Sept 19, 2021 3:36:03 GMT -6
I have tried all kinds of Linux and there are always some problems. But if someone likes trouble ... Or if someone only uses a browser ...
I wonder how you test the speed, because I don't want to believe it would be so fast ...
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Post by johnno56 on Sept 19, 2021 4:24:22 GMT -6
Aurel,
Kurumin. A nice looking desktop. Based on Debian Lenny. Ok. That makes it about 12-13 years old and probably 32bit. Reasonably small in size (about 600mb). No wonder it runs quickly... Brazilian... Probably why I didn't check it out back then... lol Nothing wrong with an old distribution as long as it relatively compatible to today's drivers, hardware and software. (Unless one actually wants to run with original software...)
Modern distros have become bloated (not necessarily with junk) with suggested or anticipated software. Unless one owns a modern machine, performance will be a natural victim. One should always use a distro based on needs and machine resources. (in my opinion)
Rosy,
In my early days of Linux (Ubuntu 5.10), problems were par for the course, for me anyway. Did not understand the architecture and dreaded the command-line... But over the last 16 years. Installation, use, updating etc has become much more user-friendly. There are still some niggles with hardware, drivers and distro-related issues but nowhere near as many as there used to be... I find fewer problems with 'major' distros... Probably because they may have a larger community that is keeping on top of problems. But, you are correct... problems still exist...
Speed. What usually determines speed? Power to weight ratio. Compare the speed difference in say, a distro that does not need 'installing' by residing in RAM to the same distro installed on a HDD. A lightweight distro running on a modern machine will "fly". The same distro on the same machine installed on a HDD would perform a little slower but will still be 'quick'. Run, for example, Ubuntu of the same machine and notice the reduced speed. Ubuntu is a larger distro with more 'weight'.
The smaller, lighter distros will have the element of speed at the cost of not having as many 'included' packages when installed. You probably know all this stuff... but there are non Linux users that do not. For us, it's a 'refresher course', but for others it's another chance of convincing them that Linux is not 'evil' or a 'monster'... lol
I really DO need to learn brevity...
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Post by rosy on Sept 19, 2021 5:29:45 GMT -6
But why should I convince someone to go to Linux? If it is good, it will not need to convince anyone ...
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Post by Tomaaz on Sept 19, 2021 6:56:23 GMT -6
But why should I convince someone to go to Linux? If it is good, it will not need to convince anyone ... This is simply not true. People are generally afraid of new, unknown and unpopular. You need to convince them to try. Also, what did you mean by saying that you had tried "all kinds of Linux". There is only one Linux. This is what many people fail to understand. A distro is not a new kind of LInux. There is only one Linux. There are also a few package management systems and that's all what really matters. Desktop environments, for example, are not part of LInux. A distro is simply a Linux + package management system + preinstalled/preconfigured software (including DE) . There are only few major Linux + package management bases (Debian/Ubuntu, Red Hat/Fedora, Arch), of which one (Debian/Ubuntu) holds 90% of the market. Take a Bodhi Linux. It is a distro based on Debian/Ubuntu that comes with Moksha desktop environment, but Moksha is not part of Linux in any sense. What you can do is to type in the terminal sudo apt instal lxde, wait till the process is completed, logout from the desktop sessions and login again choosing LXDE. So my question is - is it still Bodhi Linux or are you using Lubuntu now? You can have several desktop environments (XFCE, KDE, Budgie, Mate) installed at the same time and choose between them during login process. So what is your distro now? Is it Xubuntu, Kubuntu, MInt Mate ,Ubuntu Budgie? Or is it still Bodhi? Does using a different DE means trying a different kind of Linux? Of course, not.Think about Android. The producer of your handset my choose which launcher to preinstall on your device. The can go for specific set of icons, use a custom theme etc., but it is still the same system. There is only one Android and you will be using the same app store etc. It's not true that Linux is slower than Windows. Linux itself is, for 100%, faster. What may cause problems on older hardware is the software like desktop environment, web browser, media player itp., but you will have the same problems with Windows Machine. My younger son has a cheap Windows laptop. Poor hardware, only 4 GB of RAM. Windows is really sluggish. I've tried several new Linux distros on it. Even when running from an USB stick in live mode they were visibly faster and smoother, but that was, in every case, the base system itself. Some people believe that lightweight Linux distro will, magically, make a web browser or media player to be lightweight, as well. It will never happen. A lightweight distro make run fast and smooth on a machine with 1 GB of RAM. You will be able to edit text documents, play mp3 files or look at your photos, but the moment you will try to browse modern websites or watch HD video content your system will crash or become unresponsive and unusable.
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Post by rosy on Sept 19, 2021 9:22:05 GMT -6
You didn't even answer, why should I convince someone to Linux ...
If there is only one linux, then programs need to be compiled separately for Debian, Slackware ... Explain to me, because I don't understand ...
Android is the same Linux too?
Show proof that Linux is faster than Windows? This statement itself makes no sense, because you didn't even mention which version of Windows ... And yes - there are different versions of Windows, although they are more compatible than this "one Linux".
My mom has a Netbook with 2GB of RAM and runs normally with Windows 10.
You're just lying. I've been doing a lot of benchmarks. Even RC Basic is 2x slower under Linux than Windows 10 ...
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Post by Tomaaz on Sept 19, 2021 11:16:10 GMT -6
1. Yes, I did answer your question. People are generally afraid of new, unknown or unpopular. You need to convince them to try and decide if they like it or not. What's so difficult to understand? Please notice that by "you" I don't mean you (rosy) personally. This just a general statement that applies to almost everything in this world. So, you (this time it's you - rosy) have never tried to convince anyone to try anything? Yeah, sure. 2. Programs don't have to be necessarily compiled separately for different distros. Examples: www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/new/ - just download, unpack and it's ready to run on any modern distro nim-lang.org/install_unix.html - just download, unpack and it's ready to run on any modern distro golang.org/dl/ - just download, unpack and it's ready to run on any modern distro www.libreoffice.org/download/appimage/ - just download and it's ready to run on any modern distro www.xnview.com/en/xnconvert/#downloads - just download zipped version and it's ready to run on any modern distro love2d.org/ - just download Appimage and it's ready on any modern distro There is more, to many to list them all. Of course, on Linux you can ALSO install software from repositories, but it doesn't mean that programs HAVE TO be compiled separately for different distros. 3. Android is just based on Linux kernel. No point to explain it to you, because, no matter how detailed the explanation is, your answer will be "I still don't understand". 4. My son's laptop runs Windows 10. Of course, I could make a couple videos showing Linux running faster on that machine, but I'm almost certain you would accuse me of lying and manipulating these videos, so what's the point? 5. Show me proof that Windows 10 runs normally on your mum's netbook. :-) Just kidding, of course. I'm not that paranoid and I simply believe you. But what this have to do with Linux running faster than Windows 10 on my son's laptop? It doesn't even say if Linux runs faster/slower on your mum's netbook. It just say that Windows 10 runs "normally" on it (whatever that means) . 6. We were talking about operating systems and not specific programs. I'm aware that many programs and games run faster on Windows, but that's a completely different story. You have no idea what Linux is, how it works and how to make it work for you, but, of course, you know it's not as good as Windows. Python programmers say the same about BASIC. It's slow, shit and there are only problems with it. No matter that in some cases and for some users BASIC is simply a better choice. It must be worse than Python, because it's not Python. Using this "logic" you can "prove" anything you want. I would never recommend Linux to an ordinary user if they are happy with Windows and their machine works fine. On the contrary - I would advise them stick to Windows. But if they have outdated hardware or/and are generally interested in learning new things the yes - trying Linux would be my recommendation. The Linux vs Windows war is long gone now. It's generally accepted that the situation is not binary one. To be honest, nobody cares anymore. In the real world mobile devices took over several years ago. There are billions of people who don't even own laptop/desktop anymore. For them Windows is as cryptic and difficult to use as Linux.
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Post by rosy on Sept 19, 2021 12:28:35 GMT -6
Billions? You must be wrong ... I think trillions of people ... So I can safely install APT from RC BASIC on Slackware. Great message. It is worth listening wisely ...
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Post by Tomaaz on Sept 19, 2021 13:16:42 GMT -6
There is more than seven bilion people on Earth. Do you doubt that the only device bilions of them use is a smartphone?
Your question about RCBasic and apt doesn't make sense in English, but I believe what you complain about is a problem with finding and installing depedencies on Slackware. It has nothing to do with Linux itself. It would be absolutelly possible to distribute RCBasic the same way Firefox, Nim, Golang or Libre Office are distributed. One download for all distributions that contains the executable with all required dependencies. You can't realy blame Linux that this is not the case here. That was the choice made by RCBasic developer.
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Post by johnno56 on Sept 19, 2021 15:15:51 GMT -6
Guys. Guys. Guys. I enjoy a discussion as much as the next person. But, I am obligated to let you know that, dis-respective comments and attitudes on a public forum, reflects badly on the forums' reputation. Lively discussions are fine... as long as they are civil...
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Post by Tomaaz on Sept 19, 2021 16:57:16 GMT -6
To be honest, I don't really know why I'm taking part in this discussions. It belongs to a different era. Imagine two guys discussing music sources. One likes CDs, because they are small and digital while the other prefers vinyls, because they are big and analogue. And the third guy just found an old Brazilian tape player and is asking how to use it (there is no instruction in English). Meanwhile, 99% of the world says "whatever" and keeps enjoying streaming services. Linux vs Windows war is long gone. The community has accepted that, on desktop, Linux already had its peak and at the moment is in retreat. Windows is not the most popular system for everyday use anymore. And hobbyists and enthusiasts will continue using both, depending on their preferences. What next? Are we gonna start fight C64 vs Atari vs ZXSpectrum?
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